i had a couple of jw sisters call at my door today.. they started with the bizarre "can we read you a scripture" and read about "death being no more" and asked what i thought of that.. i said it sounded like a mix of disney and dumb.. they then launched into how god was going to put an end to death and wasn't that wonderful?.
i said it would have been more wonderful if he'd not created death in the first place.. they thought man created death by disobeying so i questioned why god couldn't have just forgiven them.
apparently "because he loves us" is supposed to be a satisfactory answer to why he kills us.. i asked how loving it was to kill hundreds of thousands of children in tsunami's, disease and so on.. at this point, they gave up on the 'god is love' and switched to the bible being true no matter what because it was an old book and moses had written the first chapter (says the book).. when i suggested it really wasn't that old and that most of the bible myths were copies of older stories from before it was written they questioned if i studied the bible and theology.. then i told them i was brought up as a jw so knew it was all crap.. now it was game on, they immediately switched to play defence questioning why i'd left (and i think they'd already taken a step back away from "the evil" obviously emanating from me).. not much time to say much before they cut and run so i told them i'd left because i found out it was all based on lies and that the watchtower was corrupt and covered up things like child abuse.. oh no, you're thinking of the catholics one of them said (some disdain in how she said "catholics" as though "we're so much better than them").. "well, i challenge you to do a search for the australian royal commission and you'll see the testimony the watchtower leaders gave and the damning evidence that they covered up abuse and reported none of it to the police.".
Well it's such a blessing that the holy spirit instructed them to come to your house while you were home so that . . . err, wait - nevermind.
They came to your door so that before you're destroyed you would have a chance to . . . err, wait - you'd already heard the message before.
The holy spirit guided them to your door so that . . .
wow this is interesting!
i think how much emphasis this puts on "loyalty" shows their is an issue.
they're trying to plug the wholes as much and quickly as possible.
This is intense bombardment of loyalty indoctrination. It is overkill.
-Half Banana
Apparently they didn't get the memo:
homophobia (m-w.com):.
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.
can someone tell me, specifically, was homophobic about the new "anti-gay" wt video.
for those who havent encountered it before, the kalam cosmological argument is a proof of gods existence and goes as follows:.
) anything that begins to exist has a cause..
) the universe began to exist.. c.) therefore the universe has a cause.. .
...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality.
all you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done.
homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication.
...right from a pro-jw site in response to a post about the relative seriousness of homosexuality.
all you can do is reason from the scriptures, which you appear to have done.
homosexuality is as serious as bestiality, or adultery and fornication.
Firstly, the humanist views presented by Jesus can help engender tolerance, mercy and so on.
-kc99
Humanist views? Are you stark raving mad?! Humanist views from Jesus?
Are we talking about the same person? The man who told slaves to obey their masters? The man who said he was not bringing peace but a sword to the whole earth? The man who planned to break up fathers and mothers and sons and wives? The man who threatened to cut off and throw into the fire anyone not serving him? The man who referred to all Gentiles a "dogs"?
Maybe you need a refresher course - Jesus was not the peace loving hippy Christians would like to make him out to be. He was a misogynistic, racist, war mongering, sycophantic a-hole.
A man of his times - perhaps. But definitely NOT a humanist.
there have been so many cuts in the past few years in the jw world what do you think might be next?
The events of the past ten years has been truly extraordinary. The amount of material published is less than half. The amount of printing materials is a fraction of what it used to be. A whole meeting has been disposed of. Over a 1/3 of the branches have shut down. No more District Overseers. Massive layoffs at Bethel. Suspension of all construction. etc.
None of us had any idea the WT would so quickly be brought to her knees. If the slow attrition continues we'll see KHs being sold off more and more often. But if the next decade is anything like the last - there won't be much of an organisation left at all.
Can you imagine if half of the remaining Branches also get closed? If the role of Circuit Overseer gets phased out? If all printing is suspended? If the amount of content produced continues to plummet?
The WT is already well on its way to being a TV/internet evangelist religion. I doubt they be able to keep more than 25% of their Publisher base if they go that route. But it may be all they can do to stave off extinction. Adapt or die.
i believe it to be a waste of time talking to, reasoning with, jw's if you expect any kind of quick result.. many of us when we first wake up think that 'coz ttatt is blindingly obvious to us, it will soon get through to our jw loved ones.. this simply isn't so for a couple of important reasons.
the first is that, if someone believes something is true, or the truth, to them it really is, without doubt, true.
so whatever you say must be wrong somehow.. the second problem is that jw's simply do not have to use, or pay any attention to facts and logic.
I've never understood this line of reasoning. Every single one of us on this forum CHANGED OUR MINDS because we were confronted with some evidence that we just couldn't rationalize anymore. And the more we sought answers from the WT the more we realized what a house of cards their theology is.
No, you can't deconvert a JW in a single conversation. But it doesn't always take massive earthquakes to start an avalanche. Often it's a single snow flake that gets the ball rolling. And sometimes even one small point can have a profound impact upon the mind.
I should also point out that people don't change their minds because they "want to". Rather, people change their minds because they have no choice but to. Who knows what sorts of doubts and logical inconsistencies a JW may be noticing. Taking a moment to point out a few more is hardly a waste of time.
Using inclusive language can be hugely beneficial. Saying things like "how can we know that?" - "I understand that's what you believe but how can we tell if it's actually true?" - "do you think that we should have good reasons for believing the things we believe?" - can force them to think instead of just having emotional reactions.
All in all, I believe that people should have good reasons for believing the things they believe. And it therefore follows that if I want to change other people's minds (JWs included) I have an obligation to give them good reasons for doing so.
Simply saying "they'll never change their minds therefore I won't even try" isn't only wrong - it's also intellectually lazy.
today spiegel online & bento have an article about the anti-gay video.. spiegel is one of the biggest and most serious news media in germany.. they also report and show that youtubers cut the video and changed it in a funny way.
sofia tells her mother that the teacher said it's fine if they live each other.
then sofia's mother says: "thats wonderful.".
I am genuinely shocked at how many people posting on the various threads addressing this topic don't get why this cartoon is so offensive.
It's not just that it's telling children being gay is dangerous (which is bad enough in it's own right). It's also instructing kids to go out and tell other kids that being gay is dangerous. The little girl in the cartoon is expected to teach her classmate about a paradise that her Moms wouldn't ever be allowed to be a part of.
JW children are already the school pariah. Instructing them to go around attacking the family structure of other kids is only go to make things that much worse for them. And be very hard on the kids who's parents are being singled out as "dangerous".
This cartoon is not benign. Nor is it their "same old bigotry". Rather, this is a whole new low. Don't be deceived by the pixar animation and happy music. It's a disgusting piece of propaganda.
the wtbts has to know they aren't actually going to see their numbers significantly jump anytime soon/ever right?
are they planning on cutting the rbc down to 1/10th the work force so they can actually slow down their kh projects instead of increasing them?
or do they think their little website scheme is actually going to bring in more people?.
